The Mary Tyler Moore Show

So, I first watched this back in the '90's when they aired reruns on Nickelodeon's fantastic "Nick at Nite" nighttime programming.

It was '95, to be exact, and I was 14. It was a show that felt relevant but also dropped with nostalgia.

Since then, I bought the series years ago and have watched it in its entirety at least 10 times since.

It never gets old.

Thoughts?

Great show. One of the best ensembles ever to grace the land of tv. I'm probably in the minority on DL but thought Betty White had her best role as Sue Ann. Never could get into Golden Girls and idiotic Rose.

Sue Ann was fucking amazing. That bitch would still be relevant today.

[quote]Never could get into Golden Girls and idiotic Rose.

Ted Baxter was no Rhodes scholar himself.

It was a smart comedy. You don't get writers and actors in sitcoms like this today.

Strangely, it has not retained popularity. Neither has "Cosby Show" (even before the scandal), "All In the Family", "Laverne and Shirley", etc. It does make you impressed with the staying power of something like "I Love Lucy" or even "Golden Girls".

Oprah said the MTM show was the reason why she went into broadcast journalism.

She's also the reason the whole show came out on DVD, R7. I still can't believe it sold anywhere near as badly as they claimed.

R8 Is she really the reason it was released?

I love the feel of the show, so simply and carefree

R9: That's the story I've heard over the years. Fox released a barebones season 1 set of M*A*SH and a fully loaded season 1 set of MTM, the M*A*S*H set outsold it and that became the template for any of their older shows: do it as cheap as possible. They already had season 2 extras and planned to do them for every season, but they were scrapped. Then it was years between sets after that. Seasons 5-7 only came out after the cast reunion on Oprah, and they kept cutting music and trying to save as much as they could on costs everywhere they could in order to justify it. It was a highly-rated, well-reviewed show that is still talked about to this day, and holds up beautifully in reruns. It made me angry to see stupidity rewarded and intelligence derided when you see what studios will and won't release.

But how many stations like WJM really exist anymore?

Oprah's re-enactment of the opening credits was awesome. I wanted to be Mary, too, as a young boy in the seventies.

[quote] I wanted to be Mary, too, as a young boy in the seventies.

And you still are as an eldergay in the 2010s.

I have a friend who still tosses his groceries in his shopping cart.

I think EVERYONE has wanted a "tossing my hat into the air like Mary" moment.

Iconic.

R8, R11, it's sadly not talked about much anywhere except DL. Why should a studio release something when there is no audience for it?

R16 It's just not marketed right.

R17, Huh? If people aren't watching it in reruns, what makes you think they're going to rush out and spend $100 on it? Anyone who was a fan knows it's out and if they don't, that refutes the concept that MTM had smart fans.

R18 But when it was in reruns, it was well watched.

They need to put it up on Netflix.

Poor Gavin MacLeod. Never nominated, correct? Such a tragedy.

Interesting that aside from TED KNIGHT who died over 30 years ago, the rest of the cast is still living !

The ENTIRE main cast of the Dick Van Dyke show is still living, and that show is even older than MTM!

R25, now that you've said that, watch them all drop dead by the end of the year.

R24 I am the only M here.

Mary is very ill with Alzheimer's. She hasn't been seen in public in quite a while.

Gavin was in 3 iconic shows, few actors can say they've been that lucky.

The finale still moves me to tears.

Buck would have never fucked Sue Ann Nivens.

[quote]The ENTIRE main cast of the Dick Van Dyke show is still living, and that show is even older than MTM!

MOREY AMSTERDAM 1908-1996 .... RICHARD DEACON 1921-1984 .... JERRY PARIS 1925-1986

Don't forget the show originally was about ROB & his co-workers. LAURA and the home life were to be secondary.

I was thinking of Reiner, Rose Marie, Dick and Mary, not the secondary characters.

[R19] It is on Hulu. I have been watching one ep a night lately.. Had not seen it in years.

R19, it was never well watched in reruns, which is why you don't see it on any cable networks except the most obscure that also show Lawrence Welk variety shows from the '60s. MTMs illness does make it impossible to do a Time/Life series like with Carol Burnett but after the show's original run ended, it never gained a second life.

One of the best sitcoms ever made. Decades later and it's still hilarious. And I so wanted to live in Mary's studio's apartment when I was a kid!

R33, I count McHale's Navy, MTM and The Love Boat as Gavin's iconic shows.

In the early 80s, one of the local NYC stations would air THREE Mary Tyler Moore episodes, followed by TWO Bob Newhart Shows starting at midnight, or 12:30am weeknights. It was impossible to go to sleep if you watched the first MTM, suddenly it was 3:00am!

Love it. I've been watching it on Hulu every night for a few weeks now.

Hello, let me introduce myself, I'm another person in the room

I wonder why it never caught on?

I fucking love this show. Mr. Grant is such a great mad dad character and the show was forward thinking for the time period.

Mr Grant was too fat and was racist, chauvinistic and homophobic.

R26 r36, I'd say Morey Amsterdam was an integral part of the cast, too...

R47 Um, you're thinking Archie Bunker.

At the time, I liked Rhoda's apartment. Now, I like seeing how Mary's place is decorated.

That Phyllis was such a miserable cunt.

Murray was the original king of shade. I always loved his quips about Ted.

Phyllis was a total and complete bitch. Even though her spinoff tanked, it did make me smile a bit that Lars died and left her broke.

Cloris Leachman was amazing as Phyl. The episode where she starts reminiscing about her performance days and then brakes out in song.

Murray was a weak character -- a throwback to the bad sitcom days. But everyone else was great.

Morey Amsterdam was in the Dick Van Dyke cast title credits. Carl Reiner was not.

So DVD and MTM are equal in surviving cast members

R6 and don't forget our classic show!

MeTV runs MTM every Sunday night. with the Bob Newhart as the psychologist just before. that's my before bed routine each Sunday.

So many great episodes. Chuckles the Clown's death is like a Master Class in comedy writing and performance. And all the episodes revolving Mary's disastrous parties, especially the episode where Mary has a party and Johnny Carson comes to it...just as there's a power outage. The whole episode is done in the dark and it's hysterical!

I'm watching MTM right now on Sundance.

It's such a warm yet realistic show. I can't believe it's 45 years old.

R26 R36

Morey Amsterdam was as crucial as Rose Marie.

[quote]So, I first watched this back in the '90's

Boy, do I feel old.

You can't have "Buddyandsally" without Buddy.

A lot of Mary's co stars refuse to die. Think about it. Even Rose Marie is still alive. Harper is defying her brain cancer. Betty White will probably make it to 110 along with Leachman.

Can you imagine... Saturday night 1973

All In The Family ....8:00

M*A*S*H .... 8:30

Mary Tyler Moore....9:00

Bob Newhart Show....9:30

The Carol Burnett Show....10:00

And they were smash hits. Now Networks don't even program Saturday night

[quote] The whole episode is done in the dark and it's hysterical!

No, most of it is flashbacks, which is a sign of a desperate attempt to revive ratings

Mary must have a smelly old snatch by now!

r66, isn't that an interesting line-up? I wonder why MASH was so early in the evening? It seems Bob Newhart should be at 8:30 and MASH at 9:30.

It was so brilliant that Mary's parties were always a disaster. Some of the show's funniest moments happened then.

[quote]A lot of Mary's co stars refuse to die.

I had to deal with a lot of competitive bitches. But I have spunk. I'm not dying until I've read in the newspaper that Rosemarie, Val, Betty and Clo all have made their arrangements with the Grim Reaper.

Is the MTM kitten still alive?

I loved the show. A bit dated at the beginning, but perhaps my wish for how I wish the world would really be.

I wanted to be a journalist, live in an apartment with fun neighbors, date handsome men, and have a boss I kinda sorta wanted to fuck. And look good doing it too!

[quote] MeTV runs MTM every Sunday night. with the Bob Newhart as the psychologist just before. that's my before bed routine each Sunday.

Starting in January, MTM will follow Bob.

I LOVED LOVED LOVED the show since it debuted in Sept 1970. It had the best cast and characters in any comedy TV show I've ever seen, and I've seen each episode at least 30 times. Nowadays, it's hard to watch anorexic Mary. She looked so skinny-sickly.

[quote] That Phyllis was such a miserable cunt.

Even her own show admitted it.

I always crack up at the end....

"It sure isn't YOU!"

I was chatting with Tristan McManus and Valerie Harper after a Dancing With the Stars taping and deadpanned to Tristan - who said he hadn't seen any of Valerie's work as Rhoda - "can a person lose 10 lbs by 8:30?"

A puzzled Tristan said "I...I... don't think so. What time is it now?"

Valerie burst out laughing.

"This is my date and his wife...." Rhoda had some of the best lines on that show.

"Phyllis" was ruined the minute they cut her hair.

Now this is a Mary thread I can get behind.

My favorite dinner party incident: Lou taking too many portions of the main course, prompting Mary to take him aside, shaming him into returning most of it. He said something like, "I guess I wasn't that hungry."

[quote]My favorite dinner party incident: Lou taking too many portions of the main course, prompting Mary to take him aside, shaming him into returning most of it. He said something like, "I guess I wasn't that hungry."

Wasn't that the episode where Mary was entertaining a woman politician, like a city representative or a state senator? Even when I was little, I wondered why they entertained a high profile person in that shithole that was Mary's apartment.

Murray was essential. It needed a genial, snarky Everyman.

[quote] "Phyllis" was ruined the minute they cut her hair.

Us croaking didn't do it any favors.

I thought I would love GIRLS when in the pilot Christopher Abbott (the only good looking person on the show) talked about Hannah falling asleep to The Mary Tyler Moore Show. I used to do that when I was low and was ready to binge watch this show made by a kindred spirit. Almost immediately the abysmal acting and whiny tone put me off.

I have rarely been more disappointed with modern TV.

Poor Judith Lowry passed way too soon!

I always felt Murray was a queen in the closet. Loved him

[quote]I always felt Murray was a queen in the closet. Loved him

Me too. I always thought that Murray wanted to *be* Mary. Beautiful clothes, lots of attention, exciting job.

R91 So true. Plus, his subtle femininity and skill in the art of shade: PING!

During staff meetings, Murray would often look longingly at Gordy's bulging crotch.

Originally, the Murray character was supposed to be "gay" 1970 TV style. The same as it was written in the final series, except no mention of a personal life.

The Mary Tyler Moore Show remains the best television show ever. Ever.

Best ever TV theme song too.

R94 But Murray had a wife and family.

Perfect balance of humor, slapstick, drama, tragedy and current day topics that are still relevant nearly 50 years later.

Mary Tyler Moore Show - The Lost Episode

Weatherman Gordy predicts a freak snowstorm for the Minneapolis Metro Area. Not having any windows in their office, Murray doesn't realize how hard it's snowing. Gordy invites Murray to stay at his place. On his way out of the building, Murray stops by Sue Ann's studio for some "advice."

Later that evening, Gordy opens a bottle of chablis and puts Barry White's latest album on the record player.

R66

Along those lines, I have good memories of watching those with my family & like to recall my late dad laughing. I don't think I ever saw him laugh as hard as he did while watching a very early airing of SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE with DAN ACKROYD & JANE CURTIN doing a take-off of 60 MINUTES' Point/Counter Point. When DAN started his rebuttal to her rant with, "JANE, you ignorant slut !," my father laughed so hard he turned red and his drink was drawn up through his sinuses and came out his nose.

MTM is amazing. It's a shame millennials aren't exposed to it. It holds up beautifully to this day. On another board, people were posting their favorite ensembles in TV history. Shows like Game of Thrones, Friends, The Office, and Mad Men were the dominant choices. None of those series' casts hold a candle to MTM's.

Also worth a watch: Lou Grant, the MTM spinoff drama with Ed Asner, is on Hulu. It was really ahead of its time, and Nancy Marchand was fabulous.

Comparing [italic]Friends[/italic] to MTM is like comparing a pre-laminated plastic mall-bought print of the Mona Lisa to the real thing that hangs in the Louvre.

R91 well that would explain why so many self loathing DLers hate Murray.

I still enjoy the first few seasons of AITF more. I certainly laugh much harder. And given the election year we had, really more timely than ever.

I always thought it was an odd choice to dress MTM so young in the first year of the series when we'd all seen her so long in her sophisticated Laura Petrie clothes. The hair style, too, looked so silly after the Jackie K. bouffant.

AITF had such an obnoxious and loud studio audience. Small issue, but it always bothered me. Same with Married with Children.

MTM was just great sophisticated comedy. Smart but not elitist.

AITF = Anonymous in Trans Fuckery?

[quote]Best ever TV theme song too.

If it was "the best" they wouldn't have rewritten it.

Norman Lear, MTM Productions and Witt-Thomas-Harris all put out most of the best-written, most consistently funny sitcoms of the 1970s and 1980s. Network sitcoms, at least the live-action ones, haven't been nearly as good since they all sold out to studios and the studios took over the broadcast networks and accelerated the dumbing down of American television.

[quote] AITF = Anonymous in Trans Fuckery?

I wasn't trans, just a female impersonator.

R107 with the exception of The Golden Girls I really don't think Witt Thomas have good credits. Soap sucked imho.

Then your taste is in your hat, R110.

[quote] During staff meetings, Murray would often look longingly at Gordy's bulging crotch.

Damn, John Amos was so hot. Who wouldn't want to get some of that BBC?

R106. The MTM theme song wasn't rewritten; it was adapted with new lyrics after the first season to show that Mary had "made" it on her own and she was now succeeding. The MTM theme song remains the best ever on television.

[quote]Comparing 'Friends' to 'MTM' is like comparing a pre-laminated plastic mall-bought print of the Mona Lisa to the real thing that hangs in the Louvre.

R101. Right on, sister!

We used to watch All In The Family. About a year ago, I watched reruns and it seemed obnoxious. Archie and Mike were yelling at each other and Gloria was screeching. I had to turn it off. It wasn't funny, just loud.

All in the Family and the Norman Lear shows could be really funny, but they were mostly broad and about as subtle as an anvil. They also pioneered the heavy-handed "very special Episode." Hence those shows haven't aged well, even if there is much to admire.

[quote] Archie and Mike were yelling at each other and Gloria was screeching. I had to turn it off. It wasn't funny, just loud

I loved AITF and Maude, and think that many (not all, but many) episodes have aged well....but yes, both of those shows had a whole fuckin' lot of people yelling at each other.

I find myself watching The Jeffersons more than other reruns on the network subchannels.

Since it was one of the final episodes before the long-planned series finale, R67, I'm pretty sure that wasn't the case. More like a chance for the viewers (and cast and crew) to take a fond look back at an incredible run. Thanks for playing, though.

R116 no matter what, I always enjoy watching Carroll O'Connor. He was brilliant. And the first couple of seasons still hold up well - probably on a different level from the rest of the series (generally speaking). And were funny in a way no sitcom has had the nerve to be since.

[quote] I loved AITF and Maude, and think that many (not all, but many) episodes have aged well....but yes, both of those shows had a whole fuckin' lot of people yelling at each other.

The sound engineers had their work cut out for them.

Both Ted Knight and Betty White, besides Mary, are standouts in one of the best comedic ensembles tv has ever seen.

I remember watching the very first episode. Alone in my room on a portable TV. My parents did not want to watch it.

That was 46 years ago. I feel like shooting myself.

I appreciate the character of Ted more now than I did as a kid.

I hated him when I was little and never understood why they didn't just fire him.

R122 always thought Ted was overrated. Betty, however, was not. Funny how she would collect Emmy after Emmy and still do Match Game with those other weirdos. I don't think she ever turned down a job.

The decor of Mary's apartment reflects the styles and colors of the time. So does Rhoda's. Mary's apartment would be quite a find for a single working person at the time. It even had a balcony and wood burning stove. Never mind the high ceilings and huge ceiling to floor window.

Back in the '70's mixing antique/vintage and modern was very much the style. Part of this was taste, part the need for frugality. In fact, Mary living in an apartment rather than a starter home on a mortgage is very much what it was like. Credit and mortgages were not obtained as freely as in the '90's.

Rhoda's place shows the boho influence left over from the 1960s. She was a free spirit, so the decor fits.

Hookedonhousesdotnet has a part on the MTM house.

R26 No they're not. Morry Amsterdam has been gone for years sovhasvRichard Deacon. Not sure if Jerry Paris qualifies as main cast, but he's gone too.

Phyllis: Boy, they sure do make a fuss over third place.

Rhoda (the new Miss Hempel's): I WON, COOKIE.

So is Ann Guilbert who played Millie.

R128 I love that episode. The way Mary scolds her for not loving herself more was so chilling to me, in a good way, as a mid-teen.

It was like a friend was talking straight to my heart.

Wow, you must all be 102 years old.

One of my favorites is when the newsroom mixes up two pieces of film - one is film of Sue Ann eating at a fancy restaurant, and the other is film on a story about pig farmers featuring pigs eating at a trough. Ted reads the stories as they were intended to be shown, clueless about what the film that's being shown behind him.

So as he's talking about Sue Ann's restaurant review, the film of a pig eating at a trough is behind him. He says, "Here's Sue Ann dining at one her favorite restaurants." Then when he's talking about the pigs, the film of Sue Ann eating is behind him. The best line - "Look at that pig eat that slop!"

R133 fucking brilliant, lol.

R132 ugh. I'm 35, bitch.

You're a precious 35 year-old.

[quote]The MTM theme song wasn't rewritten; it was adapted with new lyrics

That is what REWRITING means.

[quote]John Amos was so hot.

His nose was like a baboon. God knows how red and blue his ass would be.

The Phyllis spinoff was actually a really good show, very funny, well written.

IIRC, David Lloyd, who wrote MTM's revered Chuckles the Clown episode, wrote most of the Phyllis scripts. The Charles brothers were also involved; they later went on to do Taxi and Cheers.

Trivia: In its first season, Phyllis actually got higher ratings than the MTM show ever did. It ranked #6 for the season.

R137 Probably not as vividly hued as your face, i.e. your ass.

R138 MTM reached 2, 3 and 5 spots prior to and after Phyllis.

"The Phyllis spinoff!"

This must be the feeling geologists get when they find iridium in rock layers.

No, R140. The highest MTM rated was #7 for a season.

Damn, you're right. I must be thinking AitF.

Audrey (Jane Rose), Phyllis's mother-in-law, was so shady. She had me howling during the first episode after Phyllis found out that Lars had been cheating on her.

"Jonathan, Lars wanted roses but settled for stinkweed!"

"The Lars Affair" episode is brilliant, and is the one episode where everyone, inclding SueAnn, Phyllis, Rhoda, Georgette, share the scene at one of Mary's disastrous parties.

So many great episodes and scenes throughout the whole series. The "Veal Prince Orloff" dinner party; the vibrating bed in SueAnn's bedroom; Mary and Ida chasing each other around the pull out bed, trying to shove money into each others' pocket; Phyllis siniging "Ten Cents A Dance; Rhoda dating Phyllis' brother who winds up being gay; the "Better Luck Next Time" dating club; Chuckles the Clown; the finale.

One the best ever network sitcoms.

[quote] That was 46 years ago. I feel like shooting myself.

I'm right there with you.

I watched the first few seasons but I turned 16 in 1973, which in CA meant getting my driver's licence, so no way was I going to stay home on a Saturday night and watch TV with my parents.

i caught up with the show when it went into syndication.

"Phyllis Whips Inflation," featuring DL scourge Doris Roberts

Phyllis singing "Ten Cents a Dance" still makes roflmao.

I loved that Phyllis considered "picking the right wine with dinner" a job skill.

I spent some of my Bar Mitzvah money on 16mm prints of episodes of this show, as the DVD releases hadn't happened yet. Also picked up a few [italic]Laverne & Shirley[/italic] and [italic]Trapper John MD[/italic] episodes while they were handy and before eBay killed the film collecting market.

R149 Fucking hilarious. Thanks for that.

^ I love the weak, resigned way Mary asks, "What did you do, Phyllis?" Whatever her personal foibles, MTM had brilliant comic timing.

Do you think that Gavin McLeod was pissed that everyone got a spinoff except him? Rhoda, Phyllis, Lou. And he was the only one besides Mary to be in every episode.

My favorite Ted insults from Murray.

"What else can you expect from somebody whose favorite Marx Brother is Zeppo?"

Ted is trying to decide on new publicity photos.

Ted; "So, Mur, what kind of picture of me would you like to see?"

Murray: "A chalk outline on the floor."

[quote] Do you think that Gavin McLeod was pissed that everyone got a spinoff except him?

He got to be captain of the Love Boat; what's he complaining about? Betty White and Georgia Engel got an unrelated show from MTM Productions and it was gone in 13 weeks. And Mary hasn't had a hit on TV since, [italic]Ordinary People[/italic] notwithstanding.

R156 God, she was devastatingly brilliant in that film

She should've won over Sissy with her variations on a country bumpkin career.

R157 she did deserve it, imo ...but what I could never understand is - even had she not quite deserved it, why wasn't the sympathy there? To make a movie about your son who kills himself and then, the month it's released, your real life only son kills himself? Talk about shit you can't make up.

I remember reading her bio, "After All", in high school and she was so candid about her experience.

She also said that she saw a lot of Beth Jarrett in herself and in her father, whom she modeled her performance in.

Also, I agree about the sympathy. Like, seriously? No love for a legend giving a knockout performance who was also in deep mourning.

I should have been in Betty's show, then it would have been a hit.

[quote] I remember reading her bio, "After All", in high school and she was so candid about her experience. She also said that she saw a lot of Beth Jarrett in herself and in her father, whom she modeled her performance in. Also, I agree about the sympathy. Like, seriously? No love for a legend giving a knockout performance who was also in deep mourning.

And didn't she outlive one of her sons in real life along with seeing a brother die of cancer after a failed suicide attempt?

Sissy did her own sangin', which was a huge point in her favor, awards-wise.

Plus, Coal Miner's Daughter showed a large passage of time and more character progression. And her character was lovable, which is often easier to reward in a head-to-head matchup.

That said, I would have given the Oscar to Mare.

A little esoteric maybe, but I always loved the scene where Lou had to suspend Mary. While Mary was trying hard to suck up to get out of being in trouble, Lou told a story about a guy he once knew who hid dirty words in Latin in the newspaper basketball scores. The way he says that it wasn't hurting anyone and "maybe a few doctors had a good laugh" but it was still unethical and the guy had to get fired because "the news is sacred" really got to me.

R162 She had some tough times, for sure.

I so love Mary.

R164 That episode was so good.

The episode that gets to me is the one where Mary spills the beans to Murray about Lou's one night stand with Sue Ann. The scene when Lou very calmly and coldly tells Mary that.they are no longer friends just kills me.

Gordy did have a baboon nose, maybe he should get with Michelle Obama.

oh! r168 what a riot. you are SOOOOOOO funny. i mean, you look ridiculous .

Sue Ellen had a smelly snatch. Is it true that Betty White hasn't been fucked since 1980? 36 years????

I liked the "Walter Cronkite" thing at the end of that episode, R166.

"my brother's keeper" is kinda my sentimental favorite episode of the entire series. it is groundbreaking in how it handles the gay character. especially for network television in the late 70's. he is just a person who happens to be gay. he isn't tragic or a joke or a stereotype. he's just a good guy who is gay. and it's vintage great mtm--phyllis and rhoda at their best, georgette too, a disastrous party--a fantastic climax to the episode. it's great. watch it.

Did that blonde guy with the dorky hair cut and tight pants in the background at the TV station ever get a line to speak?

I was always turned on by Murray's fuzzy overgrown sideburns.

R172. Great pick. That really is a fantastic episode.

So many great iconic lines! Some that come to mind off the bat:

"That's MOTHER'S news, Bess!"

"Ted is wearing his Conqueestador Buhts."

"...and mine's BLACK!"

And I'd like you to meet my date, Mr. and Mrs. Armand Linton."

I knew a guy like Murray in real life. Quiet, fussy mid 40's daddy, Jewish guy.

We played together....went on a date, went back to his place and THWACK! Out came the longest, fattest cock.

Gotta watch out for the quiet ones!!!

My sisters and I used to use the Phyllis phrase "in that way I have."

"I hope these earrings don't come off when I toss my head in that way I have."

Here's The Lars Affair - second only to the final episode. The timing that the women in the episode have is phenomenal.. I can remember taping this episode on my Panasonic cassette recorder and listening to it over and over again. And I do believe it still can stand up against any episode of a sitcom ever. The other one that ranks up there is when the whole group are in Sue Ann's bedroom. Situation comedy at it's best.

DUH, R96. The final character of Murray WAS NOT GAY. Read again, ditz.

I think All in the Family holds up and I've seen it on multiple channels lately. However, I have to agree with the person who said that after a while the yelling and the nastiness becomes too much. I like MTM , mostly with Rhoda. I wasn't even born when these shows were airing, but I'd watch them over Friends anytime. Seinfeld remains my all time favorite though.

R179 When Sue Ann slams the oven door shut with her knee, I laugh 'til I cry every time!

R179 And when Mary gets the cajones to tell it like it is to Sue Ann - classic stuff!

[182] I know that's what I man, those women are perfection. The other subtle part I love is the look on Cloris' face when Phyllis tastes her own pie. Shear genius!

The party episode featuring Johnny Carson - in the dark.

After Mary introduces Sue Ann to Johnny:

Johnny: "Mary, do you have a dog?"

Mary: "No."

Johnny: "Well, in that case, one of your guests just licked my face."

Sue Ann: "Sorry."

R184 Oh, God, yes! Cloris Leachman made the BEST faces!

My favorite episode is when Lou brings elderly Mrs Dudley as his date to an awards show just to show up Edie. It's an episode that's about doing the right thing, and there are so funny lines too...

I don't watch television, I have a fireplace...

You're excused, Lou...

Mrs Dudley was the flower girl at Thomas Alva Edison's wedding...

That was a very sweet episode, R187 (but, as you mentioned, also really funny). I loved Mrs. Dudley!

Lots of Mary on ME TV and Sundance.

Veal Prince Orloff, the best MTM show. Much better than Chuckles the Clown.

I actually improvised this for Mare and the pond/lake at dusk.

r168

It is FUNNY and he DOES have a nose like a baboon? Why are you trying to deny something that is plainly obvious?

R190 Three of the best moments from that episode:

When Sue Ann is taping her show and Mary is waiting off camera. Sue Anne says, "God couldn't be everywhere, so he made mothers." The look on Mary's face after she delivers that line is priceless!

When Sue Ann says, "If we don't eat at 8:00, we might as well take my delicious dinner and flush it right down the toilet."

And of course, "Mary, darling, do you have any idea what happens if you let Veal Prince Orloff since it an oven too long? He DIES!"

Three shakes of a lamb's tail.

The way Cloris Leachman threw herself into her scenes is comic genius. She knew just how far to push it. Brilliant.

The Veal Prince Orloff episode is a testament to what a great actress MTM was. Just watch how she handles losing control of her dinner party.

For me the weak link in the show was Ted Knight. Jack Cassidy originated the character on the sitcom "He&She"....he was so much better. It's a hard character to pull off....Cassidy did it brilliantly.

The MTM Show and The Bob Newhart Show are pretty much the only pre-90s sitcoms I enjoy. Both have aged very well, unlike Norman Lear shows.

I've seen Cloris Leachman speak about playing Phyllis in interviews; basically her method was always to portray the character as having "a sure, firm touch on the wrong note." Love that!

I HATE the last season, or the show after Mary moved to the high rise. But straight guys prefer these shows because it focuses more on the male characters. Chuckes the Clown was a one joke lame episode but it goes down as the "best" one because of all those straight guys who could finally tolerate the Mary Tyler Moore Show

And the show also grew progressively more slapstick. Remember Ted putting Sue Ann into the wedding cake? Or Lou dumping a desert on Beverly Garland's head?

R195 I loved the episode where Phyllis was freaking out because she thought her brother was dating Rhoda. Finally, when Rhoda says to Phyllis, "He's gay," Phyllis freezes for a moment, then with perfect timing, says, "Oh, thank God!"

Hey wait, I love the show when Lou dumps the dessert on that woman's head. On of the few good ones.

Another lame last in the series "we've run out of ideas" shows: Lou, Murray and Ted dream what it would be like to be Mary's husband.

I never understood the love for the Chuckles the Clown episode. Mainly, it just doesn't make any realistic sense. In real life, if Mary started laughing at the funeral, they ALL would have broken up. Human nature. I never bought the premise that the others had laughed themselves out of it. ANd although there were some not great episodes in the last season, there were some great ones too. The same could be said of the first season.

Oh, and I've used the phrase, "I don't watch TV, I have a fireplace!" for years.

I'm watching the Christmas episode right now. I watch it every year. It's not a great episode but it reminds me of Christmases when I was a kid.

R202, I loved the episode as well, but I used it to point out to those who claim the show had such sophisticated humor, that it could be just as low brow as I Love Lucy. But who cares, it's TV.

R203 We could argue about the realism of that episode until we're all blue in the face. I mean, come on - the episode revolves around a guy dressed as a peanut who gets shelled by a rogue elephant! But the episode remains a classic because of Mary's incredible comedic performance during the funeral scene. And every single one of us can relate to being unable to control our laughter in a completely inappropriate place at one time or another - one more reason why the episode works.

It may not have been the most sophisticated episode in the history of the series, but it's still a winner.

R187 "These old fingers don't always do what I tell them to."

Who are R199's "all those straight guys"?

That's why it's called the church giggles.

[quote]Chuckes the Clown was a one joke lame episode but it goes down as the "best" one

It totally lacks the sharp wit and sophistication of so many other Mary Tyler Moore Show episodes. It seems like a long SNL skit.

[quote] Oh, and I've used the phrase, "I don't watch TV, I have a fireplace!" for years.

I use it here, and sign it Martha Dudley

Peter Baldwin, who directed some of the best MTM episodes and would go on to direct episodes, and was the main director of The Brady Bunch at the time, of lowbrow un critically acclaimed and un Emmy winning kid series like Small Wonder, Full House and Family Matters.

How the mighty have fallen. ..

R212 and "Full House" and "Family Matters" are both better remembered than MTM these days. I'd be willing to bet they paid better as well as MTM was a notoriously cheap production company.

[quote]But Murray had a wife and family.

Just off the bus from St. Olaf, are you?

The Mary Tyler Moore Show

The show was honored with a Peabody Award in 1977. In presenting the award, the Peabody committee stated that MTM Enterprises had "established the benchmark by which all situation comedies must be judged" and lauded the show "for a consistent standard of excellence."

Sissy had had a previous nom for Carrie

Mary had been in TV

Voters rewarded Sissy for that

Mary's role was a supporting one and Timothy's a starring one. The categories were both wrong.

Mary should have won. End of it.

Why are we picking on this show when we could be talking about her variety show?

R220 it's an amazing show, that's why. I'm spending some time with Mary this lovely Sunday.

Love IS all around, R220!

"a guy dressed as a peanut who gets shelled by a rogue elephant"

That premise (or was it a joke?) was way too stupid for even The Lucy Show circa 1965.

It was a sitcom, not Mucus Welby

[quote] MTM was a notoriously cheap production company.

At least they could afford film.

we get it R224 you're not a fan of the Chuckles episode. but many of us are, and reaalllly enjoyed it.

It's not totally implausible.

How did you think Peter Baldwin must of felt when he went from directing episodes of MTM and working with comedy legends like MTM, Val Harper, Ed Asner, Cloris Leachman and Betty White to directing VIKI the robot in Small Wonder and working with the Olsen Twins and Urkel?

Employed and happy for the paycheck.

[quote]we get it [R224] you're not a fan of the Chuckles episode. but many of us are, and reaalllly enjoyed it.

I'm with R224. The Chuckles episode doesn't even seem like the MTM writers were involved. It's sophomoric, crass and I agree: "The Lucy Show" 1965.

R230 no worse than Paul Schrader.

I forget what episode it's in, but I love the sight gag when Sue Ann walks into the newsroom, walks over to Murray, grabs his head and tilts it back and uses it to check her lipstick. Absolutely hilarious.

[quote] Sue Ellen had a smelly snatch.

Oh dear.

[quote] How did you think Peter Baldwin must of felt

Oh, dear.

It's not "Must of". Nor is it "should of" or "could of."

It's "must've" or more properly, "must have."

"must of felt" is the best yet.

That is kind of cute, R238, isn't it?

Buck would have NEVER used "must of."

Georgia dear at R170, this isn't a "Dallas" thread.

[quote] How did you think Peter Baldwin must of felt when he went from directing episodes of MTM and working with comedy legends like MTM, Val Harper, Ed Asner, Cloris Leachman and Betty White to directing VIKI the robot in Small Wonder and working with the Olsen Twins and Urkel?

That it would be better than being homeless.

If you don't get the Chuckles Bites the Dust episode, I feel sorry for you. It's often considered the funniest single episode of any sitcom in television history (up there with a few episodes of I Love Lucy).

The point is that Chuckles's accidental death is so horribly ridiculous that people keep making morbid jokes about it in private, but at the memorial service it's inappropriate to laugh because Chuckles's family is presumably there. But Mary gets the church giggles and can;t help herself.

It's a Master Class in comic acting. MTM so often had to play the straight man both on her show and on the DVD Show, and here she really gets to let rip. The greatest moments are at the end when the minister singles her out and she's so mortified, and then when he bids her to come right out and laugh happily, she can't--she starts sobbing. Classic, human Mary.

You forgot that Mary was chewing people out for making the jokes.

"It's often considered the funniest single episode of any sitcom in television history"

Just because many people consider the Chuckles show to be that doesn't make it so. It has nothing to do with "not getting" it, is has to do with that show not being up to the standards of the first four years of the MTM show. If YOU don't understand that - you are incapable of understanding what a great show it was.

I have to agree with r245. Not my favorite episode, no matter what others think. Always thought the premise was flawed. It's not that it's bad, it's just not as good as it's made out to be. I remember when Rhoda left for her own show,m everyone said that MTM wouldn't be as good. But the fisrt Rhoda was just okay, and the first MTM was brilliant, the one where she has to go to jail for not revealing a source.

Sorry. Chalk me up as yet another poster who was never very into the Chuckles episode.

I loved the Chuckles episode. Part of that is because my memory of it first airing were as a little kid who was awoken by my parents and relatives howling at the tv so loudly that I came out to see why they were laughing. So it makes me smile because it gave some of my dear daparted family so much joy.

[quote] Does that qualify for a MARY?

No, it qualifies as a very sweet story and a wonderful childhood memory.

Phyllis had a smelly snatch.

My favorite line in the Lars Affair episode was when Phyllis noticed that Lars' clothes came home cleaner than they were when he left in the morning...

Is that what killed you, Lars at R251?

R253, everyone knows Mother Dexter would be dreaming of Charles Bronson.

Love the adoration the first true M is receiving.

That's right, r254! Stripped to the waist! And so was I!

He! So was HE!! Forgive me, I've been dead for years!

R249 = MARY from Coronation St,

Ma, finish driving ME crazy before you start branching out.

R260 That is such a good fucking episode. I love Ida.

Nothing beats this iconic version of the theme song.

Tina Fey said 30 Rock is basically a modern MTM.

Goddess.

Chant her name whilst dancing in circles and listening to -

MTM was the best sitcom. Stands out in my memory as the gold standard of sitcoms.

But best TV series is still, in my opinion, the original Upstairs, Downstairs (also from the early 1970s).

[quote]Tina Fey said 30 Rock is basically a modern MTM.

Tina Fey was wrong. MTM was funny. 30 Rock was just annoying in that grating way when a sitcom tries to be funny and isn't.

Agreed, R268.

30 Rock really does not hold up to repeated viewing. Grating is the word.

[italic]30 Rock[/italic] is no MTM. It's not even a [italic]Golden Girls[/italic] or a [italic]Designing Women[/italic] (despite its disappointing homage to it), and even [italic]Maude[/italic] and [italic]the Facts of Life[/italic] had more to say about the real world and the treatment of women in it. Some funny bits but its ties to some morally and aesthetically questionable people (the Brian Williams cameo will age like an unwrapped slice of Kraft American cheese, and anything that even so much as allows David Schwimmer and Jennifer Aniston on the set gets instant demerit points). I watched the show on Netflix from start to finish and when it was over I found myself hating Liz Lemon, feeling sorry for Jack for having to deal with her, and falling in love with Kenneth Parcell. In the future, most of the jokes and references will go over the heads of anyone not yet born when it was new.

[quote]In the future, most of the jokes and references will go over the heads of anyone not yet born when it was new.

That's also a problem with Golden Girls. They had a couple of Dan Quayle jokes that I'm sure nobody understands today.

I have laughed out loud many times over some of these MTM lines. Thanks, guys!

What makes "Ten Cents A Dance" is the way Phyllis flubs the lyrics.

R274 Every breath of her performance of that song is comic genius.

[quote]What makes "Ten Cents A Dance" is the way Phyllis flubs the lyrics.

What episode is that in? I'd like to see it again. I vaguely remember it, but it's been many years.

The vid of the performance is up thread.

[quote] That's also a problem with Golden Girls. They had a couple of Dan Quayle jokes that I'm sure nobody understands today.

That's not a sign of dated humor, that's a sign of historical illiteracy on the viewers' part. You can always Google references you don't know.

[italic]I Love Lucy[/italic] had plenty of gags about pop culture of the day. I never would have known who Mary Margaret McBride was had they not dropped her name in dialogue.

R276 "Rhoda the Beautiful" S3E6

[quote] What makes "Ten Cents A Dance" is the way Phyllis flubs the lyrics.

AND the punchline.

[quote] What makes "Ten Cents A Dance" is the way Phyllis flubs the lyrics. AND the punchline.

Now who would even know that?

The problem with Golden Girls begins and ends with the shitty, overrated Susan Harris.

This thread has me like -

MTM tried address the problem of Mary's prescription pill addiction (this was around the time of Betty Ford's revelations). There was a haunting image of Mary looking into a mirror and not really recognizing herself. Of course, the episode devolves into slapstick as Mary is taking a bath and the entire (male) newsroom enters her bathroom.

R282 = Linda Bloodworth-Thomason, still not over the fact that she couldn't put it over with Hillary.

R284. I think that's a fantastic episode. And then Lou ends up staying with her.

Classic.

R284, another lame last season episode

Mary did NOT get addicted to pills, Lou THOUGHT she was.

[quote]I never would have known who Mary Margaret McBride was had they not dropped her name in dialogue.

But from the way it was written you know WHAT Mary Margaret McBride was, that of a homemaker. You needn't know exactly who she is. That is the hallmark of good writing. Like on the Simpsons, in the beginning when they'd parody something it would be funny, ,even if you didn't know about what was being mocked.

Now if you don't watch what is being parodied you're lost. That is weak writing.

R288 Watch the episode again.

R291 Thank you. I think I'm going to cozie up in bed and watch MTM this beautiful morning.

[quote]I wanted to be Mary, too, as a young boy in the seventies.

Be that as it may, most of you turned into the old lady in the babushka who watched Mary toss the hat in the air.

R293 lol. You know, they actually tracked that extra down during a retrospective.

It may have been for the documentary - which I think is great - included on the last disc of the Season 1 DVD set.

[quote]DL favorite Joyce Bulifant

Joyce Bulifant favorite Joyce Bulifant

There, Joyce. Fixed that for ya.

R295 = Georgia Engel, wondering why her [italic]Care Bears Movie[/italic] royalty checks are so low these days

When Babushka Lady died her obituary was published in newspapers across the country.

Fab caricature of Mare and the gang (except no Sue Ann, boo) by THE Master, Glen Hanson.

R300 He captured them perfectly.

That delightful drawing seems to have been made before there was a Sue Ann character.

Filming the new opening credits for season 4.

R300, Sue Ann was always recurring and never a regular.

You are right, r304. I just love Sue Ann. But who doesn't! Glenn is unsurpassed! There isn't a caricaturist working today who is as good, especially at drawing women.

[quote]That delightful drawing seems to have been made before there was a Sue Ann character.

Then it should have Gordy, probably. He was on a minimum of once a month from 1971 through 1973, and didn't leave until after Sue Ann was introduced. If Phyllis' daughter is going to be there, I'm not sure why Gordy (or Sue Ann) wouldn't.

R294, it was Hazel Frederick. In the mid 1990s when the mall put in a statue of Mary throwing her hat in the air, MTM did some morning talk radio interviews and mentioned she didn't know who the woman in the background was. The family overheard and contacted MTM, apparently, so they made an appearance together.

I remember seeing it on Nick at Nite and Frederick looked kind of out of it, but she was in her late 80s I think.

Sue Ann was in 46 episodes (out of 168)

Murray was so fucking hot.

Glen Hanson also made all the men look fuckable in his cartoon. He knows his men, too!!

Today is Mary Tyler Moore's 80th birthday. Mary was born on December 29, 1936.

How Mary made it to 80 is a miracle.

Loved her Evan Picone wardrobe.

[quote]Loved her Evan Picone wardrobe.

I never liked the scarves. They seemed too froo-froo for work, even though that was the style.

r295, Joyce Bulifant is DL legend.

I thought Mare's birthday was Dec 31.

Thanks for the info.

One of the more interesting pairings was Rhoda and Lou. You couldn't imagine Mary with Lou but Rhoda seemed a good match for him, although Mary was probably closer to Edie than Rhoda. The producers didn't pay attention because they paired Harper with Groh on her own show.

Lou needed a strong earthy type like Charlene or Aunt Flo

I loved Lou and Aunt Flo's dynamic.

I love Aunt Flo.

Lou and Murray would have been a fun pairing at Ptown's Bear Weekend.

R322 lol. I can totally see and dig it.

Lou and Rhoda were not a pair, they were just friends not sex, if you watched the episode Rhoda even says that.

Rhoda was the only thing really good about the show and when she left the decline was horrible. Ted who was based on disgraced Chicago news anchor Ron Hunter was good in small doses only.

R324 You simply don't exist.

Buck would never have dated Rhoda!

R324, it appeared that Rhoda didn't have sex with any character on MTM, except possibly Jonas. Watch the episode and Lou is clearly smitten with Rhoda because of their similar interests and personalities.

Ted Baxter was based on an LA newscaster named George Putnam. "The late Ted Knight stated that Putnam served in part as a model for the Ted Baxter character in the 1970s television series The Mary Tyler Moore Show on CBS".

Rhoda's comedy was that she was the schlubby Jewish girl making wisecracks. It's funny that when they gave Rhoda her own show, they turned her more into Mary and gave Julie Kavner the schlubby Jewish girl lines.

The problem with Rhoda's show was that the writers had her get married too quickly. Once she was married, it limited the possibilities. Also, the whole Joe's ex-wife and kid were pure crap when it came to writing. Why even write yourself in a box like that? They should have left Rhoda and Joe as dating. But the show did make excellent use of Nancy Walker. She's one of the best things about that show. I never understood why they didn't write a role for Joe's parents. It would have been funny to see an Italian mother type sparring with Nancy Walker. You could just see a huge family get together where Joe's mother brings a big pan of lasagne and Ida brings a brisket. Lots of potential comedy in that relationship.

R324 = born ten years after MTM went off the air

Wait, you mean Joe Gerard wasn't also Jewish?

[quote]Wait, you mean Joe Gerard wasn't also Jewish?

Oh, was he Jewish? I thought he was supposed to be Italian. He worked at a building demolition company. I thought in 1970s NYC, all of that was Mafia owned.

Rhoda to Ida: "Ma, how come you didn't ask if he was Jewish?"

Ida: "If he was Jewish I would have asked him."

Joe was supposed to be a WASP. Seriously.

[quote]Lou and Murray would have been a fun pairing at Ptown's Bear Weekend.

LOL.

I like R328's ideas for "Rhoda".

It would have been fun to see Ida and Joe's mother eventually become allies in trying to steer Rhoda and Joe into parenthood or other decisions and to see Martin and Joe's father trying to rein them in or out maneuver them.

Joe's kid was a wash but the ex could have been better used.

R335, R328's "ideas" have been out there since 1978.

Thanks for that R337. Keep us updated.

With "Rhoda" I can't find the very last episode of the series. It was posted on YouTube for a bit, but it was taken down. It bugs me that I won't be able to find out what happened to Rho and the gang.

R339 It's not a proper season finale, just another episode. Rhoda shouldve been given a proper send off.

One thing that surprised me was that Mary was considered much prettier than Rhoda. I always thought Rhoda was better looking and she wasn't as heavy as she was made out to be. I also liked the show more when Rhoda was on.

[quote]One thing that surprised me was that Mary was considered much prettier than Rhoda. I always thought Rhoda was better looking

Mary always looked like you would just snap her in two. Girl needed to eat a sammich.

[quote] It was a sitcom, not Mucus Welby

The writers of this show never would have used that as an excuse to settle for less.

R341, it's the gayling in you. That's why Phyllis' gay brother went for Rhoda. Her look and personality appeals to the gay in all of us.

"Did that blonde guy with the dorky hair cut and tight pants in the background at the TV station ever get a line to speak? "

His character's name was Pete. I think he had a single line once or twice, but mostly he just moved papers and film canisters from one desk to another. (I always watched him because I thought he was kinda cute.) His name was John Benjamin Chulay, and I believe he was the son of one of the show's assistant directors.

Rhoda was easy, and had less 'value' no matter how she looked. Mary was the prize you couldn't have. Rhoda was ethnic, first Jewish female character on a sitcom, which meant she was automatically marginalized. Mary was the perfect non-threatening WASP.

= why Mary was 'the pretty one' no matter what she actually looked like

People here poke fun at Chiller and The Hollywood Show autograph shows but because of them, I have met almost the whole cast. I met Mary when she was doing a Broadway show so there was no DVD's at the time BUT I have MTM Season One signed by Ed Asner, Valerie Harper, Cloris Leachman, Gavin Mcleod and John Amos with Asner adding... "You've got spunk!"

R347 How adorable and lucky you are.

[quote]Rhoda was ethnic, first Jewish female character on a sitcom

Seriously?

[quote]Ted who was based on disgraced Chicago news anchor Ron Hunter was good in small doses only.

I always thought Ted was based on LA anchor Jerry Dunphy ("from the desert to the sea to all of Southern California ... ")

[quote]I never would have known who Mary Margaret McBride was had they not dropped her name in dialogue.

To bring things back around to "MTM," Mary Margaret McBride was essentially the '50s version of Sue Ann Nivens.

[quote]For me the weak link in the show was Ted Knight. Jack Cassidy originated the character on the sitcom "He&She"....he was so much better. It's a hard character to pull off....Cassidy did it brilliantly.

And Cassidy ended up playing Ted's brother.

[quote]I love Aunt Flo.

You wouldn't love her so much if she showed up every 28 days.

Be sure to read R353's post with a sharp intake of breath after every four or five words.

After all this MTM chatter, last night I went home and pulled out my dusty MTM DVDs so I could watch Rhoda The Beautiful and Cloris killing "Ten Cents a Dance." I nearly burst into tears at the opening credits.

I love that episode so much. Funny and touching like the best of MTM.

You should rewatch the whole series.

No ones ever said girl eat a sandwich back in the 70s and women like MTM were never considered too thin.

Rhoda really did look glam in her Miss Hempel regalia.

I'm rewatching the whole series in M's honor.

The Mary Tyler Moore Show: The best show ever on television. Ever.

Funny, I can't bring myself to watch it right now either.

I've seen several episodes in the past few years, so I know I'll enjoy them, but there is something very sad about thinking MTM has died.

It's sort of like Mary Richards died. And I can't handle it.

I loved Laura Petrie the most.

[quote]It's sort of like Mary Richards died.

Mary Richards died? Did that nasty Little Stevie kill her?

The documentaries attached to the first season DVDs are fabulous!

You really had to be a MTM fan to love the show. For me, it was always a pleasant way to pass a half hour on a Saturday night as a preteen.

[quote] I want MTM on Netflix!

It's on Hulu.

[quote]You really had to be a MTM fan to love the show.

Oh shut up.

[quote]You really had to be a MTM fan to love the show.

You're quite wrong about that.

CBS tribute hosted by Gayle King who can't go a fucking hour of her life without saying the name Oprah.

R376 I'm pretty sure it's in her "contract."

[quote]But from the way it was written you know WHAT Mary Margaret McBride was, that of a homemaker. You needn't know exactly who she is. That is the hallmark of good writing. Like on the Simpsons, in the beginning when they'd parody something it would be funny, ,even if you didn't know about what was being mocked. Now if you don't watch what is being parodied you're lost. That is weak writing.

A 1950s homemaker or a former vice-president: who is more culturally significant.

Supposedly there will be marathons or prime time specials this weekend on several networks, but I haven't got the actual listings. Anyone?

When it was on Nick at Nite, they would do special dedicated weeks by character. I liked the promos for Murray Slauter week. I'd like to celebrate Murray Slauter week every year.

R145 When TV Land first stated running The Dinner Party episode, they cut out the joke about Lou Grant taking 4 servings. The whole point of the fucking scene and they cut it out!

R380 On pbs the MTM retrospective is on at 3pm central time Sat.

Me tv will have four episodes beginning at 1pm central Sunday.

Many episodes are on YouTube plus the whole series is bound to be on some streaming service.

Sundance is showing it a lot of the weekend.

It's fun to romanticize living in the first apartment, but in reality I would hate having someone living above me!

I remember when Johnny Carson came to one of Mary's cocktail parties. No one believed her he would be there. Right as he got there the electricity went out. So it was dark. You heard his voice and then he was gone. It was a riot.

Get this. Love it. Dick Van Dyke had something to say today about last night's show...

Dick Van Dyke was feeling annoyed. 15 hrs · I enjoyed getting a glimpse of Mary Tyler Moore on the @Oprah Winfrey Show tonight @CBS

Good for Dick, Oprah is a bloody bore.

She's like a narcissistic child who makes her mother's funeral all about her.

Good for you, Dick. I felt the same way. I hate that cunt. She ruined the show, though it was totally thrown together without any care. They couldn't have taken their time and done a good job with it and maybe, just maybe aired it two weeks or so after Mary's death? She'll still be dead.

I was always kind of surprised that they never had Dick Van Dyke on as her boyfriend for the last season. Or even cast him in those few episodes where Ted Bessell played her boyfriend.

Ted Bessell was such a fucking schnook. The least sexy "sexy" guy on TV in the 70s

I loved Dick Van Dyke's comment. He still has her back.

R303- Thanks for that clip! Interesting to see what went into filming the revised opening. And I know they wanted to keep the opening 'fresh' each year, but I only really liked the opening for Season 1 and 2. I didn't like seeing Mary get older with each opening :(

I guess it's understandable that they spun off Rhoda and Phyllis to their own shows, but it really hurt MTM's show IMO. Those were two very strong relationships for Mary and the show just didn't play as well after they left.

R385

Johnny: "Mary, do you have a dog?"

Mary: "No."

Johnny: "Then one of your guests is licking my hand."

Sue Ann: "Sorry."

OH, Roooob!

That was the best tweet ever!

20/20 honoring MTM tonight

Watching it now R397. It's well done.

MeTV honors Mary Tyler Moore:

Did "How will you make it on your own/...You might just make it after all" get changed to the more familiar lyrics between seasons 1 and 2, or later?

Both versions are so good.

Ted Bessell was hot in an everyday guy, very accessible way.

There is a whole DL thread from a few years ago dedicated to him.

I'm glad Mare is getting her due! She's an icon.

R395, the line was" One of your guests just licked my face." Sue Ann said nothing afterwards, but listen to the way she giggles when introduced in the dark to Carson, which makes the exchange that much funnier.

getTV is showing the 1969 special "Dick Van Dyke ... and the Other Woman" on Monday night. This was sort of the re-introduction of both Dick and Mary to TV audiences; both had done mainly films since "The Dick Van Dyke Show" ended a few years earlier. And it led directly to Mary getting her own show.

Everybody talks about "Chuckles" and "Veal Prince Orloff" but my favorite episode is when Ted and Mary take the creative writing class together and Ted steals Mary's story.

The ABC 20/20 tribute to Mary was infinitely better than the CBS tribute.

ABC's was better produced and more informative. You'd think CBS would be better since the MTM show aired on CBS.

Since Fox owns the rights to the MTM Show (and Rhoda, and all of the other shows produced by MTM), why didn't THEY do a tribute?

Can u imagine how awful it will be when Oprah dies? What a nightmare? The whole nation will be in official mourning, schools will close, federal gov't will close. I can't wait.

I don't know why I'm eating this. I should just apply it directly to my hips.

FOX TV didn't air Mary Tyler Moore. CBS aired her two successful shows and four unsuccessful ones.

Where exactly was Rhoda's apartment?

Mary lived on the 3rd floor. Rhoda was always described as living above Mary. Mary would tell Rhoda to "come on down" to talk, and when she leaves Rhoda always said she's going "back upstairs." Did Rhoda sleep on the roof?

I always wondered about that too, r411

Rhoda's was an attic apartment (and it was just a TV show. They didn't know people would have the internet years later to look at pictures and see if it was true.)

BTW does Mary ever really say she was on the third floor? I didn't know that.

R410 Then why was there also a tribute on ABC (which was FAR superior to the one on CBS, by the way)?

[quote]Can u imagine how awful it will be when Oprah dies? What a nightmare? The whole nation will be in official mourning, schools will close, federal gov't will close. I can't wait.

Flags will be flown at half-staff at all McDonald's and KFC's worldwide.

because it is news r414 and the 20/20 is a news magazine

[quote]BTW does Mary ever really say she was on the third floor?

I think the floors were specified in the episode where Mary's downstairs neighbour moved out. Mary considered taking the larger, second-floor apartment, but decided she couldn't afford it. (Ted also wanted it, but Mary was spared that fate.)

They aired the entire final season (7) of The MTM Show on The Sundance Channel today. And when they got to the final scene (the group hug) of the very last episode I was a blubbering mess.

[quote] FOX TV didn't air Mary Tyler Moore. CBS aired her two successful shows and four unsuccessful ones.

News Corporation bought MTM Productions from Pat Robertson, who bought it from a British company called TVS in 1991, and they in turn bought it from Mary Tyler Moore in 1988. I wonder whether it would still have been sold if she and Grant Tinker hadn't divorced.

Rhoda lived above Mary, Rhoda even has a duct that runs right up to her flat from Mary's. When an architect who is sketching the building says "I wasn't aware this building had a fourth floor," Rhoda says "It doesn't but I live there anyway"

[quote]Oprah said the MTM show was the reason why she went into broadcast journalism.

I work in TV news and every woman under 60 says the same thing. They watched Mary while growing up and wanted to be like her.

[quote]When an architect who is sketching the building says "I wasn't aware this building had a fourth floor," Rhoda says "It doesn't but I live there anyway"

Great line.

I always thought it was such a credit to MTM that she allowed the writers to give Valerie Harper so many great lines. And Valerie of course delivered every one of them with sheer perfection.

Mary's apartment.

In the early 70's it was the apartment every young person wanted.

I know Rhoda's apartment was featured a few times, but did it have enough eaves and peaks? It should have been the most attic-ish of attic apts

So what was on the fourth wall of Mary's apartment? Since there was a window/balcony on the other side, probably not another one.

R426 an audience, of course.

In 1977, I had an attic studio apartment in Akron Ohio with some similarities to Mary's. High mansard ceiling, bead board walls with inset doors that opened to storage under the eaves which held all kinds of stuff accumulated over nearly a century. The house was built in 1884 and was owned by the grandchildren of the builders. Great period construction, woodwork, hardware and fixtures, stained glass windows in the bathrooms. Dirty and rundown condition, though.

It was in an inner city neighborhood right between where I worked and where I was going to school. It cost $60 a month and was so dirty and rundown that it took me over two months to clean and paint it so that it was fit to move into. I rounded up all the leftover paint and wallpaper I could from family and friends and spent $100 on paint and materials beyond that to spruce it up.

All my friends said it reminded them of Mary's apartment after I got it fixed up.

The neighbors were NOT as cool as Rhoda, though ...or even Phyllis. A number of late middle aged to elderly Social Security disability recipients who were eccentric to say the least. When I described the house as looking like the Addams family house, my sister said the other tenants WERE the Addams family.

Here's a pic of Rhoda's apartment.

R303, fascinating mini doc on the making of the opening credits for season four

About to smoke some green and watch "Mary and Rhoda".

Guests had to go thru her closet to get to the bathroom.

Is it true that Phyllis' brother who went on "dates" with Rhoda was the first explicit, real gay character on TV, and not just implied through outrageous stereotypes for comedic effect?

Actually, R395, what Carson said was "then one of your guests just licked my face."

[quote] Is it true that Phyllis' brother who went on "dates" with Rhoda was the first explicit, real gay character on TV, and not just implied through outrageous stereotypes for comedic effect?

What year was this episode aired? thought the first would have been Steve the ex-football player who beat Archie at arm wrestling in Kelcy's Bar on [italic]All in the Family[/italic] in 1971.

Regarding gay sitcom characters, All in the Family was first.

All in the Family's "Judging Books by Covers" aired in February 1971.

MTM's "My Brother's Keeper" aired in January 1973.

I think the Mary Tyler Moore show has held up very well. "All In The Family"...not so much. Oh, it was groundbreaking for its time; hell, the sound of a toilet flushing was considered groundbreaking back then! But it's kind of cringe worthy now, listening to Archie Bunker, "the loveable bigot", expounding on spics and spades and wops and hebes and micks and dagos and fruits and fags. Oh, I GET it; you're supposed to laugh at his ignorance. But the amusement wears thin pretty quickly, as least it does for me. Listening to a bigot spout racism and prejudice really isn't that funny anymore. One of the characters on the show expressed that view: Lionel. One one of the shows Archie's niece pays a visit and Archie goes insane when he finds a picture of Lionel with his arm around her and finds out they went dancing together. Lionel's father and uncle are equally appalled at the prospect of a relationship between the two young people. Archie has a little talk with Lionel and Lionel tells him: "Look, Mr. Bunker, it's been a year and a half now since we moved into this neighborhood. I was just nineteen then and I got a big kick out of you and me for a long time. But I'm pushing 21 now and I'm not getting getting that big a kick out of it anymore." Archie tries to cut him off, but Lionel goes on "now we've been friends and we can go on being friends. But when it comes to black and white and all the other wonderful thoughts you have in between....put a lid on THAT, Archie." Lionel had gotten sick of the bigotry too.

Archie and Mary will outlive them all.

I find it interesting: usually when I rewatch old television shows, I skip the opening credits. But with Mare, I rewatch the opening every single time.

Me too, especially now that I watched the documentary about the making of season four credit sequence

Rhoda was the Jew in the attic

The "My Brothers Keeper" episode was written by Dick Claire and Jenna McMahon, who would go on to write, with creator Susan Harris, the Entire 4th season of SOAP and would create both The Facts of Life and Mama's Family. Both FOL and MF featured MTM show alumni as regulars at one time

FOL had Cloris Leachman as Beverly Ann the last 2 years and MF had Betty White as Ellen Harper the first 2 years.

The first four years the best; Rhoda and Phyllis were the real stars and are irreplaceable. They used Ted too much, it got stale. Loved Mary. Georgette and Sue Anne were great. The series had some duds, and the last year was terrible. Bess also was a wonderful addition. I do think Rhoda was the real true star and the series would have flopped without her. Too bad CBS screwed the design and writing of Rhoda up--getting married too soon and not knowign what to do with the great cast. Always love Rhoda on MTM and Rhoda series. Nancy Walker, you laugh before she even says anything. Loved Nary's house. Now we learn Phyllis is the landlord, did she also own the house?

[quote]Now we learn Phyllis is the landlord, did she also own the house?

No, she didn't own the house. When she was finally unmasked (as a resident manager), she said, "Well, it helps with the rent and it only takes a few minutes of my time." To which Mary replied, "Phyllis, it takes NONE of your time."

L & P Management

a/k/a

Lars & Phyllis Management

Managing with class (in that way I have) since 1969...

When I first watch that episode as child...

I thought they were saying "Ellen P. Management"

Wow, this thread is nearly 2 years old.

I miss Mare. 😥

MTM has many, many threads on the DL.

I have a question so, I'm bumping this thread..... why was Rhoda considered fat? I'm watching a rerun and she really wasn't all that overweight. Maybe 10 pounds.

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